If you really want to offend a French man, don’t ask him if you can see his wife naked—you may end up in one of Paris’ seedy swinging clubs. Instead, just ask him how much money he makes. That would certainly stop the conservation dead.
Each society has a taboo. I could go on and on about North Americans and their obsessions for breasts: from the Janet Jackson Super Bowl “boob scandal” to the public breastfeeding controversy, nipples and cleavage definitely draw way more attention on this side of the Atlantic Ocean than it does in Europe. On the other side, the French are almost pathologically shy with money. Go figure.
French like to pretend money and everything around it just doesn’t exist. Some people are very well off and some people aren’t—to French, it is somewhat of an axiom. Some are born in rich families, inherited a fortune or married into money (which is slightly vulgar). At the other end of the spectrum, some earn the minimum wage and struggle to make ends meet. Ends of a story as old as time… what’s going to change it anyway?
In France, if you are rich, you do not show it. People already know you are rich: money talks for itself. For instance, the real bourgeois live in Paris’ poshest neighbourhoods. In fact, their apartment takes the whole floor or even better, or they own an historic private mansion that has been in the family for generations. The “de,” the particle indicating you belong to a noble family, is like an insurance against any economic struggle. Not that it is always true: plenty of “noble” families are far from being wealthy these days. Yet, they keep on pretending. Money is not just cash in the bank, it’s a status, a way of living and behaving, of carrying on the “rich genes.”
Making money is not cool. French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s slogan during the elections, “work more to earn more” was received with a lot of criticism. In fact, regardless of whether they support him politically or not, a lot of French have issues with the way the President is ostensibly displaying Rolex watches and expensive clothes and partying on his millionaire friends’ private yachts. This is seen as terribly vulgar. As said above, when you have money, you just don’t show it. This is just… American. And the French don’t really believe in the “American Dream”—history taught them that fortunes are more often inherited than made. Besides, the French tend to value their quality of life over material things. That can explain why so many people are against opening stores on Sundays—yes working on Sunday is illegal in France. Sure, giving businesses the right to open on Sundays may help the economy but a lot of French fear that some employees will be forced to work against their will. And ultimately, free time and leisure matter more than money.
The money question sometimes reaches absurd levels of taboo. Salary, for instance. When I was a student, I used to work with a staffing agency doing odd jobs. We would always be paid around the hourly minimum wage. The key word being “around”-some places paid us exactly €8, others would fork out €8.25, €8.45 even. When you are a poor student, it makes a difference, as ridiculous as it seems. But we would never know how much we would be paid until after the job was completed when receiving the pay slip by mail.
One day, I got tired of it. I had the choice between two temporary jobs, so I called the staffing agency and asked what would be the hourly salary for each, to help me make a decision. Obviously, I’d pick the better-paid one. My interlocutor shrieked, outraged: “But we can’t tell you that! If we were to disclose employees their hourly rate before they completed the job, nobody would ever accept the lowest-paid one!” Irrefutable logic—what could I say?
Things are very different in Canada. While people don’t obsess with money, it is perfectly acceptable to talk about finances, debts, and to pass on money-related tips. Canadians also believe in upward social mobility: start small and make your way to the top. After all, this is an immigrant nation and a lot of people are coming here to improve their lives. I got used to talking about money now. I just hope I don’t embarrass my French friends too much…
I am learning so much from you Zhu.
.-= Agnes´s last blog ..And the days keep on rolling and the older this world gets the fresher it feels =-.
Very interesting. Down here some people think you have to shout about your money. Some people waste their lives and have a very poor quality of life.
.-= Yogi´s last blog ..My World – Western Oklahoma =-.
When I was in Paris, I was so surprised at how late the stores were open until on Champs-Élysées (11:30 p.m.) and even some stores were open on Easter Sunday. I thought they’d be close like Canada where it’s quiet and empty on the streets.
Interesting – I learn a lot about my country’s quirks and habits from you. Yeah, we are fairly open about money matters – to an extent. In some ways, I prefer France’s tendency to keep quiet as to such personal matters.
Stores used to be closed here on Sundays! I think that is a very civilised thing to do.
.-= Beth´s last blog ..Right and Wrong – Living by the Rules =-.
Asking about one’s wages isn’t just a French taboo, but perhaps a big taboo in France compared to the rest of the world. Although I remember an incident when I went back to the Philippines after spending a good six years out of the country, and I saw one of my childhood friends, and I asked him how much he was making in his new job. He said he was offended I asked the question, and advised me not to ask that question to anyone else. Good thing we were friends, and he said I had a good excuse, that I didn’t grow up all throughout in the Philippines, so apparently, it’s taboo in the Philippines too.
.-= Linguist-in-Waiting´s last blog ..Men are Dumb =-.
I love the logic of that lady from the staffing agency. So French! And a perfect example of a situation that would frustrate a North American to no end.
.-= Tanya´s last blog ..84 New Ways to get to Paris =-.
French is a Catholic nation while Americans – whatever their faiths are – have inherited Puritan work ethics. That’s why French and Americans have vastly differently values.
But today fun is a big business. One really can make big money for having fun.
.-= khengsiong´s last blog ..The Violinist =-.
I’m not sure I agree with the notion that Americans have no reluctance in talking about salaries. If someone is working at what is clearly a minimum wage job then one doesn’t have to ask what he/she makes. But a little farther up the pay scale people can be paid significantly different salaries for essentially the same work. The attitude is that it is no ones business what another makes and to ask is quite rude. If someone has money and boasts about it or flashes it around that person is regarded as some synonym for vulgar. Good manners generally apply across cultural boundaries.
.-= Tulsa Gentleman´s last blog ..Ruby Tuesday – Knockout! =-.
They do show their wealth sometimes… I’ll never forget walking across the high bridge from one building in Galleries Lafayette in Paris to the other, when I passed a woman with bobbed hair, shades, Chanel-looking suit, fur over shoulders… the whole shebang… and just to top it off she was carrying a little dog!
The French have a crazy attitude to money you are right. They are the only country in Europe that would dare call itself “socialist” when it already had pay-tv and private freeways in the 1980s….
.-= Gledwood´s last blog ..Fairytale: The Fisherman And His Wife… =-.
It is very sensitive for most people to ask how much is your monthly salary. I do confirm with close friends but never never a common topic among colleagues & even casual friends.
Most Singaporeans are asset rich and most do have cash flow problems. Most are obsessed with the 5Cs, as Cash, Condominum, Car, Country Club & Children heheheheh…… most never stop to smell the roses I’m afraid.
What a wonderful post here Zhu, I’ll be careful when I’m with a Frenchman hehehe…
I knew this before I moved to France and was very careful to not ask anyone about their financial situations because I didn’t want to offend anyone and just assumed no one would ask me either, but no! I got asked all the time how much I earned!! It wasn’t usually people I knew well, interestingly. I think it’s because they assume that as an American I have no problem talking about such vulgar things. I always said that I earned well per hour but didn’t get to work many hours, which is true, and hoped I was outfoxing them at their own game.
.-= Soleil´s last blog ..Still Kicking =-.
I know, I irk many people here by talking about money, but it’s kind of a second nature for me because my family is very business-oriented. Yet we’re lucky that our close friends enjoy talking about money so that I do not stand out as the odd person 🙂
For some reason, I’ve discovered that many people in my family think that the French are poor in comparaison with canadians. Maybe because it’s because people are less ostensible? Honestly, I have no clue on that one!
.-= Cynthia´s last blog ..Et je ne fais jamais que passer =-.
You are right (as always :-). Good point !
.-= Sidney´s last blog .. =-.
Hallo Zhu! I see you found me again, now I’ve found you … my, this place has grown since back-when.
I think this French thing about money is really odd. It sounds like most people must live in poverty – or if they don’t, they must try and look like they do to save face. Having actually been poor, dirt poor, I can say with authority that there is no dignity in poverty. Sarkozy can enjoy those watches, good for him.
.-= Ghosty Kips´s last blog ..Nightmares =-.
Excellent post Zhu!
Though, before reading this I couldn imagine that public breastfeeding could be controversial… I think it’s ridiculous, it’s up to each mother to decide where and how to feed their babies. That’s my point of view anyway.
.-= Fede´s last blog ..Suerte =-.
@Agnes – I guess there is still a teacher in me!
@Yogi – Yeah, money doesn’t bring happiness… for sure. There must be some oil family down there, right?
@Bluefish – The Champs are the exception actually. Because it is officially a “touristic area” they can open later.
@Beth – I’m a bit split on the issue. I would never go grocery shopping at 3 am, on the other side I enjoy being able to shop on Sunday. I do find it funny that supermarkets are packed whenever a statutory holiday is coming up though. I mean, closing the store for a day isn’t such a big deal… is it?!
@Linguist-in-Waiting – That’s funny! Chinese are pretty open with money. They may not ask each other how much they make (at least not that directly) but I don’t think money is an offensive subject.
@Tanya – It frustrated me as a French so I really really feel for foreigners who have to face this weird twisted French logic!
@khengsiong – I think you are right about the religion difference. Catholicism is funny when it comes to money.
@Tulsa Gentleman – I think I understand what you mean, and I agree to a certain extend. North Americans don’t talk about their salary all the time, yet I think people tend to be more open than French. It’s hard to explain…
@Gledwood – Ah yeah, but you see, these Chanel people are the ones French call “nouveaux riches”, i.e. they didn’t inherited their money but made it. This is supposed to be vulgar… go figure!
@shionge – I like the way you explain the “5 C” – funny! It reminds me of Hong Kong, people seemed to have similar concerns and goals.
@Soleil – That’s funny! Maybe they thought as an American you’d be okay with that. Weird! When I got my first “real” job in Canada, all of my French friends hinted they wanted to know how much I made (I guess because they were still students, they were curious…). I kept on explaining it doesn’t mean much when you convert to euro, but anyway…
@Cynthia – And I discovered a lot of French people think North Americans are super rich and that Canada is very expensive! I keep on telling my parents and my friends that life is quite cheap here for me compared to France and that North America has its fair share of problems but no one gets it.
@Sidney – 😆 I’m not always right!
@Ghosty Kips – Yes, you get it. French think money is dirty, and being good with money is seen as something slightly odd and suspicious. Yet, people complain that life isn’t easy these days…
@Fede – I agree with you! I don’t get this “breast taboo” either, much less when it comes to breastfeeding.
i would never ask somebody how much money they earn.
besides, in the united states at least, you can *look* like you have a lot of money, even when you are poor– thanks to credit cards.
i agree with you wholeheartedly, zhu, that quality of life is more important than money. but it is easy to say that in western society, because most people don’t live in absolute poverty. having a nice bed to sleep in and a full tummy makes all the difference.
i would never ask to see a frenchman’s wife naked, or even a french man. even though being naked is a great equalizer- when you are naked, money does not matter so much.
but i think i’d prefer seeing somebody naked to seeing those little speedos that europeans love to wear at the beach. haha
.-= Seraphine´s last blog ..Perfect Resume =-.
Haha, this is so true! and I love that story at the end, where the lady freaked because you actually asked how much you were going to be paid. Hilarious. The effrontery.
.-= Seb´s last blog ..World Really Does Revolve Around Me. =-.
“Work more to learn more”?
You see, being a socialist ain’t that bad after all! Ha ha
.-= London Caller´s last blog ..Rangoli of beans / 豆子的蓝果丽 / Rangoli kacang / 豆のランゴリ =-.
Hey Zhu Zhu,
Ah, France and Portugal: the eternal cousins.
Here it is also a taboo to talk about money; in fact, it is tacky to talk about money. You do not flaunt your money, you do not discuss your money and those who do are considered to be vulgar (or worst: a poor chap who earned a bit of cash and now has the need to show it off).
LOL LOL so, you now discuss money as well, eh? What will your French friends say… 😉
I think it is an European thing: not to discuss money.
Loved this post: thank you :D.
Cheers
LOL …it’s getting better nut you’re right about money.
Sorry it took me so long to come back.
I just published an article on the Canadian Tulip Festival 🙂
http://guilimaux.over-blog.com/article-la-journee-de-la-tulipe-franco-canadienne-49954055.html
Ca me manque.
Take care, it’s late here.
I’ll browse around till I fall asleep
.-= Crikette´s last blog ..La journée de la tulipe … franco-canadienne =-.
Very interesting take, but I still wish vacation and leisure time were more valued here…
.-= expatraveler´s last blog ..Touring Victoria =-.
i love the boat full of chocolate people on canadian money.
.-= Seraphine´s last blog ..Silly Goose =-.